Proposed Changes to 2b2t Wiki Staff v2
|This article has been locked by the 2b2t Wiki staff to preserve its condition.
This is a talk/discussion page for events occurring from June 8th - 14th.
- Staff Decision: Joey_Coconut keeps administrator status.
- FredModulars, your actions throughout this vote have disgusted me. You purposefully mislead Miraheze stewards to even get this vote brought up, when we informed them that you had circumvented operational procedure as a result of a justified tempban, we were told the results of this would not even matter, as it could and should be handled by our staff. We decided to let it stay up. You dug up horribly inactive people, you DMed people to the point of spam, and you sent misleading information (when any was even sent) to those individuals. Your arguments were all either completely fabricated, or horribly blown out of proportion. Even with all of these dirty tactics, you could not garner anywhere near enough votes, because this vote as a whole was a ridiculous prospect. After getting completely BTFOed by the active community, you reduce yourself to taking down the community vote results on a community vote thread, to list only the staff votes in attempt to save face with the lower numbers. It is honestly shameful to me. In light of this, I have re-added the community results below this. --Joey Coconut1 (talk) 17:38, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
- Final vote numbers:
- For the Demotion: 8
- Against the Demotion: 14
- Neutral: 2
- Statistics for administrator votes:
- For the Demotion: 1 (Bureaucrat)
- Against the Demotion: 3 (one Bureaucrat), counting 4 with Joey
- Neutral: 1
Original Page Description by Fredmodulars:
- After discussion with stewards and administrators due to recent events unfolding in confidentiality, there will now be a "Proposed Changes to 2b2t Wiki Staff v2." The discussion will include anyone and everyone inside the 2b2t Wiki and will have a structure similar to how the Miraheze stewards requested.
"Due to there being no circulating drama that led to this Proposed Changes page it is recommended you take the sides of whomever you agree with or stick with your opinion, as no one has done anything too extreme as in the last scenario involving 3 former/current staff members.
- The discussion will have a simple majority, 51% to 49%. It has been opened as of June 9th and will end on June 14th (Total of Five days). Please sign your name and what you think about the user/what you think should happen.
- If the proposal passes, Joey will be demoted for the time being. Demotion means complete removal from administrator abilities. PLEASE SIGN WITH ~~~~
Demotion of Joey_Coconut
FOR the DEMOTION
Joey_Coconut is an inactive administrator who is inactive on the Wiki and 2b2t, claiming both are due to real-life compromises. Multiple times he has denied the approval of various sources for articles, such as YouTubers (not big shows like Fit) that some of the best editors on this wiki use (ex: Chipoff, just to name one). He has passed off many ideas I have asked him to see and multiple pages he claimed "it must be alright anyways" when the pages I provided him with could've been total dogshit. The man also has a terrible contribution count, one of the pillars of being an administrator. 245 (last time I checked) contributions? 171 of them made between October 13th and October 16th, 2019. From November 2019 to March 2020 he wasn't active at all on the wiki, with 11 edits made between November 29th and December 2nd-6th. He only popped in for the April 9th drama that occurred, which is where all his contributions to his wiki came from - a talk page. The plain fact is he is inactive ob 2b2t, the Wiki, has Blatantly Oppressive rules (see the Rules page, he is a very active contributor to that specific page which is where most of his other contributions came from). He claims he has many in real life compromises, which really shouldn't be the case for an administrator. The only reason he even really is an administrator is his buddies, Henry and LordGalvatronMC, standing by his side. I'm on a ramble right now so I'll end it off on the document I created that documents all of Joey's major downsides to the wiki: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Dw2M7iOedPIYllLjWHLuWaTQ3bbMgEmZgZeN-PlBbJo/edit?usp=sharing. Fredmodulars (talk) 01:22, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
I am for the demotion of Joey_Coconut. -elijah204
I agree, Joey_Coconut should be demoted. -GamingDerp
I support the demotion of Joey_Coconut1 as well. As stated on the other consensus page, he isnt active and is a puppet of jared. - Jonathan222
I also agree that Joey_Coconut should be demoted; he is way too inactive. - DefiniteError
EDIT: I just took a few moments laughing at what you wrote Joey. Man, that's a good one. You see, when I was personally demoted, totally random contributors came out of nowhere and put the same amount of dedication into their votes to remove me from my position. Guess what happened? They were counted after reviewing a few logs from the steward John_Lewis who gave me details on certain events. Trust me I sent them a lengthy e-mail afterwards with a very long explanation of why the other votes shouldn't be counted such as what you have here, and guess what? Nothing changed. These are genuine votes from the 2b2t community to vote you out. The stewards can personally refer to Modular's comment and document about Joey. You can also thank him for my presence here; I am glad to see people like Fredmodulars contributing to the community, even if you personally see some of his edits quirky of sorts lol.
- Hey Jon, looks like the bandwagon you jumped on was the wrong one. Back two months ago, you were voted out soundly, just as I have now been voted in soundly. You are out of touch with our community, and the two Proposed Staff Changes threads show that. Modulars arguments weren't even real, neither were yours. You knew nothing on the situation, and have been out of our community since you were voted out. You still came back, and just took his lies at face value. I'd go as far as saying that you have turned yourself into FredModular's puppet. You made yourself his mouthpiece; his bitch, just out of spite for me. Look where its gotten you, nowhere. All that has changed is you appear as an even bigger complete and utter fool than before. See you next time drama surfaces, I will be most uneagerly awaiting your return. --Joey Coconut1 (talk) 17:38, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
I want Joey_Coconut demoted and removed for abuse. He clearly abused bans and wants to protect himself. Redstoner___
I am all for the demotion of Joey Coconut - BuyMyMojo
I want to point out that Joey is complaining on how inactive some of my supporters that I reached out to (because you guys censored this page) are, even when I showed evidence that the only ones I did reach out to were objective and nonbiased. Also, one of Joey's supporters is Joey himself, two of them have less than 5 edits on the wiki (one account mysteriously created after the 04/09 drama), an administrator who is definite friends with joey, and then two simple contributors. Check the file on the right. Fredmodulars (talk) 18:45, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
I, EllioTricks, am for Joey_Coconut being demoted. He has been unproductive, rarely making edits and mostly creating pages that he never finishes (Like Galvatron). I know you are a great guy, but you aren't shaped for the wiki. Joey does edit a little, but he stands in the way of things quite a lot (Like the Fred drama) and only popped back in after April 9th. You also where very rude to anyone questioning your choices regarding the wiki. That's one main reason I barely talked to you about negative stuff. It is very telling that the only people that support you Joey are people who have made less than 50 edits and other admins, other admins but me that is. _xXx_✡️ ☭ 卍 ElliotRodger523 卐 ☭ ✡️_xXx_ (talk) 16:09, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
- I expected better from you Elliot, you watched me frame out a new rules and staff structure (that you have neglected to say yes or no to, for 5 days now), you saw my edits, as the whole community has. You supported me in April, and I explained, in April, that my absence was due to the abuses of the previous administration. I have shown you nothing but respect, the way you conducted yourself towards me was your own choice. My supporters are much more active than yours, because nearly everyone properly informed about this situation sees its idiocy. It seriously bothers me that you would also take this as an oppurtunity to directly badmouth Galvatron, who has been a dedicated staff member for quite some time. It saddens me that you support the other end of this because I genuinely respect you as a person, but I feel there will be some serious issues moving foreward if you hold attitudes such as this to the other staff members. --Joey Coconut1 (talk) 17:38, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
AGAINST the DEMOTION
I will start by simply pointing out the inactivity of my detractors, and their short arguments (and lack thereof).
I am by no means inactive either as an administrator, or as a 2b2t player. I run a lot of the behind-the-scenes stuff as well, lining up fact checks, setting up the Administrative restructure, just giving my opinion when it is asked for. Look at my edit log, for that matter, look at the edit log of those voting. You will see a clear pattern of inactivity, and in the one case of proper activity, blatant self-shilling behavior within the camp of my detractors, save for FredModulars himself.
Gamingderp91 has made about 50 edits on this wiki, nearly ALL have been on the Anarchy Links Hub page, many of those edits only pertain to moving ‘Staff’ to ‘Retired Staff’ as his staff members leave and lessen their involvement.
Elijah204 has only made 2 edits this entire year, he is not active at all within the wiki. Interestingly enough, his other edit was in Proposed Changes to 2b2t Wiki Staff. It seems his sole purpose on the wiki this year has been to serve various individuals’ beck and call.
The claims that I am inactive or inattentive are fictitious at best, lies at the worst.
I have been faithfully serving in various 2b2t wikis in an administrative capacity since 2018, and I guarantee, my works have not been unpopular with the community in the least. An interesting counterpoint to that is Jonathan222, back again for an attempt at revenge after an overwhelming vote to demote him.
I, and the other staff members, do not condone the use of secondary sources when so many primary sources are available, this is not just my policy, and it has yielded almost entirely positive feedback.
The questions you asked concerning page approval were grammatical in nature, I cannot pretend to know about every base, so any assumptions in that regard would be absurd. I gave quick glances, and they were passable in grammatical quality.
If you measure yourself completely on edit count, you miss the point. No matter how many edits you make of +35 bytes, you will never be more eligible for a staff position. My edits are much larger than your edits, with a much higher quality as well. To us in the staff room, it looks as though you spam low-effort, low-quality edits (with a few meatier ones every so often) in order to try and ‘buy’ a staff position. Your creation of the 2b2t wiki research division, is clearly another attempt at grasping for relevancy.
I was inactive back in the winter, and I did indeed come back in April, that is because Jonathan222, and Rohen were preventing me from editing in the directions I deemed necessary, the community agreed with me, and they, along with Dark, were removed from their ranks. I guarantee that my recent edits do not come from the Proposed Changes to 2b2t Wiki Staff page, you will see that I only have 2 edits in that respective page. You’re bringing up my activity 4+ months back brings up an interesting point, which you weren’t even on 2b2t for most of that time.
As to the allegations that I am a ‘puppet of jared’, I say they are baseless. Jared has not been associated with the wiki in almost a month now, and I have talked with him only once in that entire time, and that was for him thanking the staff team for real, tangible changes in administrative structure, and works done on the wiki. Besides that, you were voted out of the wiki administration, Jonathan222. The only puppet here is you, brought back from your inactive backwater by Fredmodulars in an attempt to usurp a legitimately appointed member of the wiki staff.
I have no idea what these “real-life compromises” are, I have read all of your questions in a satisfactory manner time-wise, and I legitimately do not see where this is coming from.
I am an administrator here because Dark saw my work on the other wiki, and liked my proper use of English language and English grammar.
My ‘buddies’ as you call them, are supportive of me (as is every staff member that has seen this situation). They support me because they see what a sham this is. Hell, even when you were setting up this page, you were asking me how to do things, because you are incompetent. I still helped you set this up, because I am under a reasonable degree of obligation as a staff member. How am I inactive if I helped you set up the page calling for my resignation? Then I had to correct you because you had your argument in the ‘Against Demotion’ field. You befuddle me, Fred. The google doc you’ve listed isn’t even complete, you aren’t thorough, and the quality of your arguments and the cronies you’ve enlisted really shows me that. Here is a graphic detailing the edits I have just mentioned. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/698310299085832253/720146102866673674/FredModulars.png
The situation to which I refer is FredModulars adding templates to talk pages en-masse, ranking articles. This in and of itself is completely fine, but it is not the way we intended to take this idea as a wiki staff at large. I asked him to stop several times, so that I could run such a large change by the rest of the staff team, properly. FredModulars continued, claiming that another staff member had given tacit consent. I then proceeded to ban him from the wiki for 2 hours, the lowest default time increment. FredModulars became increasingly confrontational, and I increased the ban to 24 hours. I asked the other staff members, and none had any objections. No one in the active community had any complaints besides FredModulars himself.
FredModulars’ path of recourse was not to wait out the ban, but rather to complain to Miraheze stewards, and misrepresent the situation. When Henry and myself explained to them what was really going on, NDKilla explained that this was far less ironclad than FredModulars had led us to believe.
FredModulars is unhappy with a completely warranted tempban, and an absolutely reasonable demotion from Admin (his rank was given without a proper vote). Being the first admin to notice this, I asked Galvatron, the other Bureaucrat if he would please demote FredModulars until a proper vote could take place. Since that incident, FredModulars has been increasingly hostile to me, and this vote is evidence of it. Another staff member, SoiledCold, went as far as saying he would see himself demoted before I would be. The staff and active community are behind me on this. --Joey Coconut1 (talk) 05:58, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
Joey is more active than just about every single one of the people voting for his demotion, both on the wiki, on the wiki Discord, and on 2b2t. This is just someone butthurt that they can't be in charge and write the rules exactly the way they want them. Leijurv (talk) 07:07, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
Modulars is attempting to frame this issue as one of an inactive and despotic administrator, while both of these allegations could not be further from the truth. Modulars joined the wiki just over two months ago and has been quite a prolific editor ever since. Up until recently I had not had any issues with him and viewed him as a helpful and valuable member of the wiki community. However, recently the staff had been discussing the possibility of promoting Modulars to the administrator position on account of his large contribution to the wiki, which the staff decided against. However, a few days later, Modulars was promoted to admin without discussion. As Joey_Coconut was the first staff member to notice his promotion, he messaged Galvatron, a bureaucrat on the wiki, to demote Modulars, as there was no staff discussion of his promotion. Upon this occurring, Modulars quickly added discussion of this event to his user page, where he boasted his contributions were greater than that of members of the staff. Until seeing this I felt bad about the whole thing, but upon witnessing this petty display my feelings began to change. In the following days Modulars attempted to pitch proposals to members of the staff individually through direct messages on Discord, where if he was denied by one he would move to the next until hopefully getting approval. Given the timing and his apparent saltiness on the promotion/demotion, I can only view these as attempts at “proving himself” worth of leadership. However, this only had the opposite effect among the staff.
A few days later Modulars began assigning “ranks” to every article, grading them on their quality, although there appeared not to be any objective measures or even documented standards for doing so. Joey_Coconut asked Modulars to stop due to the aforementioned concerns and that these actions were not otherwise announced or disclosed. In response, Modulars claimed that “[Elliot] approved it, so I’m doing it” and that “it’s a public wiki […] it’s a little template, get over it.” From here, the discussion further escalated, whereupon Modulars began to directly attack members of the staff, mostly Joey_Coconut with whom he was initially speaking. Due to Modulars refusal to cease edits until the staff could discuss the matter, Joey imposed a 2 hour block upon Modulars. At this point Modulars became extremely aggressive and began accosting Joey and other staff with baseless accusations of despotism and selfishness. His messages and behavior clearly indicated a personal motivation, although he attempted to disguise his concerns as pointed towards the wiki as a whole, it was clear through messages like “I know that you hate everything I say or suggest; and think I'm annoying; so I give you suggestions I know are good and you think are bad; just to see you deny them like some fucking king” that these criticisms were deeply personal.
After this argument, Modulars announced he had contacted the Miraheze stewards, threatening intervention. Eventually he created this page, claiming to have been authorized to do so by the stewards. Having spoken extensively with steward NDKilla in the past, I sent him a message, asking that as the issue was the demotion of an administrator which could be handled internally, and not the demotion of a bureaucrat which may require Steward intervention, if there was a need for steward presence. NDKilla replied that the Bureaucrats should attempt to handle the issue initially before any further action. However, Modulars skipped that step and went straight to creating this page.
At the root of this issue seems to be Modulars’ belief that the role of administrator is that of a “super editor” and that one’s suitability for leadership is directly proportional with one’s edit count. This could not be further from the truth and demonstrates a clear misunderstanding of the duty and role of wiki staff. Modulars stakes his entire argument on “activity” measuring this in edit count, but a simple number does not tell the whole story. Because Modulars is unable to see what the staff truly does, he holds a complete misunderstanding of the situation. It should be noted that none of the staff are in favor of Joey’s demotion, which speaks volumes given that they are the ones who actually have any idea of what goes on behind the scenes.
In conclusion, this issue is almost certainly entirely motivated by a personal resentment Modulars holds toward Joey_Coconut for denying him administrator, which is a nonsensical position to take, as the wiki is not solely run by Joey but is a collaborative effort by the entirety of the staff, which already has internal procedures for handling promotion/demotion of administrators. The previous page was needed because there was no way to handle the demotion of bureaucrats but to involve the stewards. This is not at all the case here. I would also like to echo the comments made by Joey_Coconut on this page about the activity of users posting on this page thus far. It goes without saying that Jonathan222 would have a vested interest in seeing Joey_Coconut removed, as he was involved with his demotion from bureaucrat on the “Proposed Changes to 2b2t Staff” page, which was the last time Jonathan222 was active. This also happens to be the last time Elijah204 was active before which he had not been active since August 2019. Similarly, user BuyMyMojo had not been active since September 2019 and like Elijah204 did not put forward any actual argument for Joey’s demotion. --Henry (talk)
1. You have to trust as a layman that the admins are doing plenty of work behind the scenes. We won't always be able to cry 'inactivity' based on their edit numbers.
2. Large, wide-spanning ideas and changes should be run past all admins.
Ideas can be pushed back by admins if they believe it to be a bad idea; not every idea should be implemented because not every idea is good. Perhaps the ideas that have been presented were pushed back not because of inactivity or even negativity, but due to the low quality of the ideas.
For example, I don't believe it's necessarily a good idea to rank articles into 5 categories. Wikipedia itself has 'featured' and 'good' articles to show others what a high quality article looks like. In my opinion, having any more ranks than that would be excessive and discouraging. Perhaps an internal ranking system or just a simple 'to-fix' list would avoid this issue. If a public ranking system were to be implemented, clear guidelines need to be set up first.
3. I read through the rules and I'm not sure what's wrong with them. The page appears very normal and reasonable. Real wikis have stricter rules to maintain very high standards, but there's only so much you can do with a subject and playerbase as chaotic as 2b2t.
If your issue is purely with the YouTuber rule: I don't know your experience and if you've been part of a project which has then been reported on by a YouTuber, but information is so commonly spiced up for the story or straight up fabricated that I'm happy for this to be a rule. Perhaps you can use videos such as fastvinent's like you use a Wikipedia article: check the sources and get your information from them directly. I propose an easy way to do this would be to shoot them a quick message on discord and ask if all the information in the video was correct, then go from there.
4. I don't see any 'admin abuse' or 'abusing ban perms'. From what I could see, Fredmodulars circumvented ideas having to be approved by all admins, and continued to ignore other admins when they told him to stop categorising articles. If Fred was going to continue making unapproved edits, making more work for the admins if they needed to roll them back later, then a temp ban seems like a very effective and relevant solution.
Ultimately, I see this demotion suggestion as coming from a place of rash immaturity. Everybody needs to read up and make a more informed decision rather than jumping to conclusions from a DM and a paragraph that a single contributor wrote.
While I don't disagree with your appetite for change, there's no need to be aggressive and ask for the demotion of an admin that disagrees with you. I don't believe that the charges against him are true, nor do I think they constitute a demotion. Cloverfrost2 (talk) 08:45, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
Joey is a based admin and hes actually active. -FamilyPumpkin6
I would literally name my child after joey - LapisTheCat
I against the demotion of Joey and I think you are greatly underestimating the value of Joey's role as admin Drcash 15:21 UTC 2020/06/10
Joey has been an amazing admin and has helped the wiki for a long time. - SoiledCold
joey is based oldfag and stuff,and i trust him more than Modulars-Zaanga
bruh who the fuck cares that he is inactive? also stop blowing up my dm's to vote on this or I'll block u (https://gyazo.com/bb7dc1830707741cb0eea0b0dc584bde) - c0mmie
I'm for Joey because he stood up against Fredmodulars and took the right action to ban him and maturely addressed his abusive behavior - Greguhlicious
Joey is easily the most active and nice staff of this wiki. He genuinely cares about this wiki and I think the majority of the community agree. The reason FredModulars is even trying to get Joey demoted is because Joey banned him for 2 hours because he would mass edit wiki pages without checking with any of the staff if what he had edited was ok. Instead of waiting the 2 hours and realising his mistake he has chosen to have a tantrum and try and get Joey kicked. Joey should definitely stay as wiki staff - Finstaa
- correction: Joey is barely active externally on 2b2t and the wiki. He was reluctant to assist me before this happened (not just with the one page) and simply doesn't give as much priority to the wiki. I also haven't had a tantrum over 24 hours, it was over an inactive administrator who doesn't do anything. Fredmodulars (talk) 19:35, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
- correction: >Joey is barely active externally on 2b2t and the wiki.
- First and foremost, learn some grammar. Second, I am active on both the wiki and the server, I have even chatted with you on 2b2t on multiple occasions. If you look at my edit log, you will see I am well-within the acceptable parameters. I have entertained every idea you have run past me, given them the benefit of the doubt. My word means nothing to you it seems, because you disobeyed me as a staff member, just as you asked other staff members when I said no to your ideas.
- >haven't had a tantrum over 24 hours, it was over an inactive administrator who doesn't do anything.
- So you did, or did not have a tantrum??
- Look at []. This guy has attempted this EXACT behavior before. The article shouldn't even exist by itself as it is specific to the NFPR, and should be included in that article. It is separate, and overblown, because FredModulars is attempting to grasp at some semblance of relevancy. That's what this vote is, plain and simple. --Joey Coconut1 (talk) 21:10, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
- Learn how to use the colon when replying to people. And for the record, that incident was won by my party. Elliot also approved that article. I didn't even talk to him, he simply edited it and I assumed it was good, no mom says no dad says yes bullshit. And what was wrong with my grammar? I also didn't have a tantrum, I took the right approach to corrupt administration. Even if this was solely based off your edit log, it would be horrible. Even with your May increase, that was mostly on individual days, and never spread out and continuously active. You never continuously do anything. And you can't blame your edits are reverted, because it shows edits that're rollbacked too.
First things first, I will summarize this post because I know not everyone will read the whole thing, so to summarize my thoughts briefly. Joey_Coconut is a good admin who has focused on quality over quantity of his posts unlike the creator of this page, has devoted time to setting up a new system among the staff which Modulars ignored, and has done I don't know how many interviews to fill in pages in either the past or later on. All in all this is just some bullshit attempt by a contributor who was denied admin after being arbitrarily given it, has been told no on many of his ideas yet would go to other staff members in hopes of circumventing the team as a whole, continuously disrespected the admin team, and now resorts to desperate measures to get his way. Joey_Coconut is a devoted admin who continued service to this wiki is greatly appreciated by not just me but my fellow staff members. He devoted time to come up with a system to solve the problems of the old wiki and make transition of powers as smooth as possible. Furthermore despite dubious claims he has gone through much effort to research people and events to ensure the respective pages are accurate as possible. He should not be demoted because one contributor doesn't understand the meaning of the word no. <nowiki>I will start this off by saying Modulars contributions were greatly appreciated among the staff team but his recent actions show his true colors. Modulars repeatedly like to look to edit numbers to support his claims, yet he does not look at substance or context. Joey was inactive for a period yes but that was due to the old admins that have since been removed continuously interfering with his edits. He as can be seen by his recent activity is hard at work on the wiki and quite active. As for Modulars himself, He came to me on May 29th asking how many edits would one need to become admin. To which I told him I was discussing it with some of my fellow staff. After some time and him asking once more I told him that I was still in discussion but edits weren't planned to be the sole qualification. He would thank me and drop the notion briefly. He would bring it up again on June 5th when he was at 609 edits and I would once again reiterate that the qualifications wouldn't be solely edit base. Before any conversation could continue it would be interrupted by someone having vandalized the wiki. However the next day Elliot would arbitrarily promote him wiki side to admin causing a discussion to occur in which we agreed to move forward setting up the current system. I would demote Modulars due to the arbitrary nature of his promotion until his potential nomination could run through the proper procedure. He would exclaim confusion, I would repeatedly tell him that a system is being put in place and his nomination would be taken care of then, much to his distaste. On June 7th, He would send me the link to a discord for an idea he dubbed the “Wiki Research Division”. I would present my opinion after talking with some of the other admins telling him I thought the idea was redundant. He would go to Joey in hopes he would say yes no doubt and was met with a similar opinion. After being denied twice he would decide to make it a personal as opposed to wiki project. The next day, June 8th, Modulars would proclaim to be reorganizing and creating templates unbeknownst to the staff team. After some confused questioning he would exclaim that it was approved by Elliot. Joey would tell him to stop as it was not run by the rest of the staff, Modulars would respond saying it was approved by a bureaucrat so he was doing it. After some back and forth with Modulars getting more aggressive, Joey would warn him a final time and shortly thereafter block him for one day. A massive argument would ensue with Modulars disrespecting the entire wiki staff, Joey responding in the heat of anger, and Henry jumping in as well to defend a fellow staff member. After this Modulars would continue to insult the wiki staff and more specifically joey, go to the stewards seeking a way to demote joey, and finally misinform the stewards resulting in this page you see now. All in all this is an attempt by a contributor ,who although has made valued edits, is determined to up-heave the very system and staff of this wiki over a measly one day ban and the correction of an arbitrary demotion. --LordGalvatronMC (talk) 16:11, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
NEUTRAL (or general notes for stewards)
I have personally extended my comment - Jonathan222
I do not have any comment for this situation - WinsDominoes
I do not believe that Joey should be demoted or removed from his position as admin, as I do not know the full extent of this situation. However, I do believe that some of the rules on this wiki, more specifically those pertaining to the use of Youtubers as sources, need revision. The main argument that Joey gives against using Youtube videos as sources is that they are a secondary source, and that "so many primary sources are available". While I understand that many members of this wiki have had a certain bald, Floridian Youtuber report on their builds, usually with glaring inaccuracies and flaws, I disagree with the assertion that primary sources are always easily accessible and that all Youtubers have these kinds of inaccuracies. Take Trump_17's video on Jacktherippa, for example; most of the information from that video was taken from conversations with Jack himself, and this seems to be the case for many of the other smaller 2b2t Youtubers, such as VillagerFilms and fastvincent1. I guess that messaging Jack myself and asking the same questions that were already answered in the video would be considered a primary source, but he would most likely either tell me the same things that he told Trump_17, or he would just tell me to watch Trump_17's video. For older events, players, bases and the like, there is usually almost no info outside of these kinds of videos. In the case of Boatmurdered, for example, there are almost no primary sources outside of a single Reddit post by one of the base members and a single Imgur album. However, most of the history of the base is told in fastvincent1's video on the subject, and to discount that video for being a "secondary source" would be ignoring a large amount of useful information given to vincent by one of the original base members. I do not hold any ill will towards Joey because, as I said earlier, I am a relatively new arrival to this wiki, and do not know the full story with the drama surrounding Fredmodulars' admin status. I also understand why this rule exists; to prevent false information spread by big youtubers like Fit, such as the case of COVID-2147. However, I am using this opportunity to give my view on a rule that I personally find to be restrictive and in need of revision. - Chipoff
My time on the wiki has giving me light to see that, every Admin should have a chance to prove themselves. I choose to be Neutral, because I don't want to be against other Staff member if they didn't do anything. The Wikis rules also tells users to be mature to keep their role. If you believe in the wiki, why should you be taken that role away from you if the reason why you're here is the improve the Wiki in many ways. I also learned that going against often leads to contacting stewards for help, which always ends in more trouble than it solves. Quarnds (talk) 13:45, 14 June 2020 (UTC)