2b2t Wiki:Proposed Changes to 2b2t Wiki Staff v2

After discussion with stewards and administrators due to recent events unfolding in confidentiality, there will now be a "Proposed Changes to 2b2t Wiki Staff v2." The discussion will include anyone and everyone inside the 2b2t Wiki and will have a structure similar to how the Miraheze stewards requested.

Due to there being no circulating drama that led to this Proposed Changes page it is recommended you take the sides of whomever you agree with or stick with your opinion, as no one has done anything too extreme as in the last scenario involving 3 former/current staff members.

The discussion will have a simple majority, 51% to 49%. It has been opened as of June 9th and will end on June 14th (Total of Five days). Please sign your name and what you think about the user/what you think should happen.

If the proposal passes, Joey will be demoted for the time being. Demotion means complete removal from administrator abilities. PLEASE SIGN WITH ~

FOR the DEMOTION
Joey_Coconut is an inactive administrator who is inactive on the Wiki and 2b2t, claiming both are due to real-life compromises. Multiple times he has denied the approval of various sources for articles, such as YouTubers (not big shows like Fit) that some of the best editors on this wiki use (ex: Chipoff, just to name one). He has passed off many ideas I have asked him to see and multiple pages he claimed "it must be alright anyways" when the pages I provided him with could've been total dogshit. The man also has a terrible contribution count, one of the pillars of being an administrator. 245 (last time I checked) contributions? 171 of them made between October 13th and October 16th, 2019. From November 2019 to March 2020 he wasn't active at all on the wiki, with 11 edits made between November 29th and December 2nd-6th. He only popped in for the April 9th drama that occurred, which is where all his contributions to his wiki came from - a talk page. The plain fact is he is inactive ob 2b2t, the Wiki, has Blatantly Oppressive rules (see the Rules page, he is a very active contributor to that specific page which is where most of his other contributions came from). He claims he has many in real life compromises, which really shouldn't be the case for an administrator. The only reason he even really is an administrator is his buddies, Henry and LordGalvatronMC, standing by his side. I'm on a ramble right now so I'll end it off on the document I created that documents all of Joey's major downsides to the wiki: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Dw2M7iOedPIYllLjWHLuWaTQ3bbMgEmZgZeN-PlBbJo/edit?usp=sharing. Fredmodulars (talk) 01:22, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

I am for the demotion of Joey_Coconut. -elijah204

I agree, Joey_Coconut should be demoted. -GamingDerp

I support the demotion of Joey_Coconut1 as well. As stated on the other consensus page, he isnt active and is a puppet of jared. - Jonathan222

EDIT: I just took a few moments laughing at what you wrote Joey. Man, that's a good one. You see, when I was personally demoted, totally random contributors came out of nowhere and put the same amount of dedication into their votes to remove me from my position. Guess what happened? They were counted after reviewing a few logs from the steward John_Lewis who gave me details on certain events. Trust me I sent them a lengthy e-mail afterwards with a very long explanation of why the other votes shouldn't be counted such as what you have here, and guess what? Nothing changed. These are genuine votes from the 2b2t community to vote you out. The stewards can personally refer to Modular's comment and document about Joey. You can also thank him for my presence here; I am glad to see people like Fredmodulars contributing to the community, even if you personally see some of his edits quirky of sorts lol.

I want Joey_Coconut demoted and removed for abuse. He clearly abused bans and wants to protect himself. Redstoner___

I am all for the demotion of Joey Coconut - BuyMyMojo

AGAINST the DEMOTION
I will start by simply pointing out the inactivity of my detractors, and their short arguments (and lack thereof).

I am by no means inactive either as an administrator, or as a 2b2t player. I run a lot of the behind-the-scenes stuff as well, lining up fact checks, setting up the Administrative restructure, just giving my opinion when it is asked for. Look at my edit log, for that matter, look at the edit log of those voting. You will see a clear pattern of inactivity, and in the one case of proper activity, blatant self-shilling behavior within the camp of my detractors, save for FredModulars himself. Gamingderp91 has made about 50 edits on this wiki, nearly ALL have been on the Anarchy Links Hub page, many of those edits only pertain to moving ‘Staff’ to ‘Retired Staff’ as his staff members leave and lessen their involvement.

Elijah204 has only made 2 edits this entire year, he is not active at all within the wiki. Interestingly enough, his other edit was in Proposed Changes to 2b2t Wiki Staff. It seems his sole purpose on the wiki this year has been to serve various individuals’ beck and call.

The claims that I am inactive or inattentive are fictitious at best, lies at the worst.

I have been faithfully serving in various 2b2t wikis in an administrative capacity since 2018, and I guarantee, my works have not been unpopular with the community in the least. An interesting counterpoint to that is Jonathan222, back again for an attempt at revenge after an overwhelming vote to demote him.

I, and the other staff members, do not condone the use of secondary sources when so many primary sources are available, this is not just my policy, and it has yielded almost entirely positive feedback.

The questions you asked concerning page approval were grammatical in nature, I cannot pretend to know about every base, so any assumptions in that regard would be absurd. I gave quick glances, and they were passable in grammatical quality.

If you measure yourself completely on edit count, you miss the point. No matter how many edits you make of +35 bytes, you will never be more eligible for a staff position. My edits are much larger than your edits, with a much higher quality as well. To us in the staff room, it looks as though you spam low-effort, low-quality edits (with a few meatier ones every so often) in order to try and ‘buy’ a staff position. Your creation of the 2b2t wiki research division, is clearly another attempt at grasping for relevancy.

I was inactive back in the winter, and I did indeed come back in April, that is because Jonathan222, and Rohen were preventing me from editing in the directions I deemed necessary, the community agreed with me, and they, along with Dark, were removed from their ranks. I guarantee that my recent edits do not come from the Proposed Changes to 2b2t Wiki Staff page, you will see that I only have 2 edits in that respective page. You’re bringing up my activity 4+ months back brings up an interesting point, which you weren’t even on 2b2t for most of that time.

As to the allegations that I am a ‘puppet of jared’, I say they are baseless. Jared has not been associated with the wiki in almost a month now, and I have talked with him only once in that entire time, and that was for him thanking the staff team for real, tangible changes in administrative structure, and works done on the wiki. Besides that, you were voted out of the wiki administration, Jonathan222. The only puppet here is you, brought back from your inactive backwater by Fredmodulars in an attempt to usurp a legitimately appointed member of the wiki staff.

I have no idea what these “real-life compromises” are, I have read all of your questions in a satisfactory manner time-wise, and I legitimately do not see where this is coming from.

I am an administrator here because Dark saw my work on the other wiki, and liked my proper use of English language and English grammar.

My ‘buddies’ as you call them, are supportive of me (as is every staff member that has seen this situation). They support me because they see what a sham this is. Hell, even when you were setting up this page, you were asking me how to do things, because you are incompetent. I still helped you set this up, because I am under a reasonable degree of obligation as a staff member. How am I inactive if I helped you set up the page calling for my resignation? Then I had to correct you because you had your argument in the ‘Against Demotion’ field. You befuddle me, Fred. The google doc you’ve listed isn’t even complete, you aren’t thorough, and the quality of your arguments and the cronies you’ve enlisted really shows me that. Here is a graphic detailing the edits I have just mentioned. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/698310299085832253/720146102866673674/FredModulars.png

The situation to which I refer is FredModulars adding templates to talk pages en-masse, ranking articles. This in and of itself is completely fine, but it is not the way we intended to take this idea as a wiki staff at large. I asked him to stop several times, so that I could run such a large change by the rest of the staff team, properly. FredModulars continued, claiming that another staff member had given tacit consent. I then proceeded to ban him from the wiki for 2 hours, the lowest default time increment. FredModulars became increasingly confrontational, and I increased the ban to 24 hours. I asked the other staff members, and none had any objections. No one in the active community had any complaints besides FredModulars himself.

FredModulars’ path of recourse was not to wait out the ban, but rather to complain to Miraheze stewards, and misrepresent the situation. When Henry and myself explained to them what was really going on, NDKilla explained that this was far less ironclad than FredModulars had led us to believe.

FredModulars is unhappy with a completely warranted tempban, and an absolutely reasonable demotion from Admin (his rank was given without a proper vote). Being the first admin to notice this, I asked Galvatron, the other Bureaucrat if he would please demote FredModulars until a proper vote could take place. Since that incident, FredModulars has been increasingly hostile to me, and this vote is evidence of it. Another staff member, SoiledCold, went as far as saying he would see himself demoted before I would be. The staff and active community are behind me on this. --Joey Coconut1 (talk) 05:58, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

I would like to add that BuyMyMojo is also inactive, having not made any edits on this wiki in almost 10 months. --Joey Coconut1 (talk) 06:16, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Joey is more active than just about every single one of the people voting for his demotion, both on the wiki, on the wiki Discord, and on 2b2t. This is just someone butthurt that they can't be in charge and write the rules exactly the way they want them. Leijurv (talk) 07:07, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Modulars is attempting to frame this issue as one of an inactive and despotic administrator, while both of these allegations could not be further from the truth. Modulars joined the wiki just over two months ago and has been quite a prolific editor ever since. Up until recently I had not had any issues with him and viewed him as a helpful and valuable member of the wiki community. However, recently the staff had been discussing the possibility of promoting Modulars to the administrator position on account of his large contribution to the wiki, which the staff decided against. However, a few days later, Modulars was promoted to admin without discussion. As Joey_Coconut was the first staff member to notice his promotion, he messaged Galvatron, a bureaucrat on the wiki, to demote Modulars, as there was no staff discussion of his promotion. Upon this occurring, Modulars quickly added discussion of this event to his user page, where he boasted his contributions were greater than that of members of the staff. Until seeing this I felt bad about the whole thing, but upon witnessing this petty display my feelings began to change. In the following days Modulars attempted to pitch proposals to members of the staff individually through direct messages on Discord, where if he was denied by one he would move to the next until hopefully getting approval. Given the timing and his apparent saltiness on the promotion/demotion, I can only view these as attempts at “proving himself” worth of leadership. However, this only had the opposite effect among the staff.

A few days later Modulars began assigning “ranks” to every article, grading them on their quality, although there appeared not to be any objective measures or even documented standards for doing so. Joey_Coconut asked Modulars to stop due to the aforementioned concerns and that these actions were not otherwise announced or disclosed. In response, Modulars claimed that “[Elliot] approved it, so I’m doing it” and that “it’s a public wiki […] it’s a little template, get over it.” From here, the discussion further escalated, whereupon Modulars began to directly attack members of the staff, mostly Joey_Coconut with whom he was initially speaking. Due to Modulars refusal to cease edits until the staff could discuss the matter, Joey imposed a 2 hour block upon Modulars. At this point Modulars became extremely aggressive and began accosting Joey and other staff with baseless accusations of despotism and selfishness. His messages and behavior clearly indicated a personal motivation, although he attempted to disguise his concerns as pointed towards the wiki as a whole, it was clear through messages like “I know that you hate everything I say or suggest; and think I'm annoying; so I give you suggestions I know are good and you think are bad; just to see you deny them like some fucking king” that these criticisms were deeply personal.

After this argument, Modulars announced he had contacted the Miraheze stewards, threatening intervention. Eventually he created this page, claiming to have been authorized to do so by the stewards. Having spoken extensively with steward NDKilla in the past, I sent him a message, asking that as the issue was the demotion of an administrator which could be handled internally, and not the demotion of a bureaucrat which may require Steward intervention, if there was a need for steward presence. NDKilla replied that the Bureaucrats should attempt to handle the issue initially before any further action. However, Modulars skipped that step and went straight to creating this page.

At the root of this issue seems to be Modulars’ belief that the role of administrator is that of a “super editor” and that one’s suitability for leadership is directly proportional with one’s edit count. This could not be further from the truth and demonstrates a clear misunderstanding of the duty and role of wiki staff. Modulars stakes his entire argument on “activity” measuring this in edit count, but a simple number does not tell the whole story. Because Modulars is unable to see what the staff truly does, he holds a complete misunderstanding of the situation. It should be noted that none of the staff are in favor of Joey’s demotion, which speaks volumes given that they are the ones who actually have any idea of what goes on behind the scenes.

In conclusion, this issue is almost certainly entirely motivated by a personal resentment Modulars holds toward Joey_Coconut for denying him administrator, which is a nonsensical position to take, as the wiki is not solely run by Joey but is a collaborative effort by the entirety of the staff, which already has internal procedures for handling promotion/demotion of administrators. The previous page was needed because there was no way to handle the demotion of bureaucrats but to involve the stewards. This is not at all the case here. I would also like to echo the comments made by Joey_Coconut on this page about the activity of users posting on this page thus far. It goes without saying that Jonathan222 would have a vested interest in seeing Joey_Coconut removed, as he was involved with his demotion from bureaucrat on the “Proposed Changes to 2b2t Staff” page, which was the last time Jonathan222 was active. This also happens to be the last time Elijah204 was active before which he had not been active since August 2019. Similarly, user BuyMyMojo had not been active since September 2019 and like Elijah204 did not put forward any actual argument for Joey’s demotion. --Henry (talk)

NEUTRAL (or general notes for stewards)
I have personally extended my comment - Jonathan222