Talk:Corner Base

I was there when he teleported me. There are screenshots in the fit video you quoted. As this person on the outskirts of your social circle, you will need to prove it, otherwise or it violates the NPOV principal. - orsond <3 --

I recommend that you read NPOV more carefully. This doctrine presupposes that reliable sources exist. I am sure you understand that FitMC is most decidedly not a reliable source. Considering your attachment with the topic, (especially considering gains from spreading mistrust as a result of misinformation), I am concerned that you, also, cannot be a reliable narrator on this subject and that a exists for you here. I barely know BIKMUNNI and frankly do not care who leaked this base, but it was zipoffs and not BIKMUNNI that did so.

Keeping the above in mind, the next step with NPOV (and the most important part) is that the subject matter discussed is done so in a fair manner. As your first instinct was to post complaints about this on an external platform, it seems you are not interested in fair discussion.

I am furthermore concerned that you are not dedicated to constructive discussion on the topic at all and would instead prefer to encourage brigading from an external platform. These activities violate the most basic editing principles. Beyond this, I furthermore find it incredibly concerning that you, an adult, are so invested in spreading rumors about BIKMUNNI, a child. He's been through enough with the fabricated story about him being broadcast to such a wide audience. Give the guy a break.

As a sidenote, you can sign messages you post on a discussion page by either typing --~, or by clicking the button that appears like a signature next to the Bold and Itallic buttons on the top left of the source editor. --Joey Coconut1 (talk) 04:05, 30 November 2022 (UTC) --

Dear Joe,

Thanks for your concerns. I will address them point for point:


 * 1) The reliable primary source is me: the person who was teleported, along with a few others of The Fifth Column team. I shared this story and evident screenshots with FitMC. As you are aware, many factual articles on the wiki are written based on information from primary sources and this article is no different.
 * 2) I agree that the reddit post was a bad idea which is why I had removed it within minutes of posting it. My sincere apologies.
 * 3) The argument that a subject of an article is "just a child" and therefore should not be mentioned is not historically a editorial standard held on this wiki. I would recommend a change in editorial policy so that all references of minors, regardless of negative or positive actions, from removed from the wiki. This would be a great idea to reduce harm given by any references or mentions in its content. I would not support the removal of this information until this editorial policy changes.
 * 4) I appreciate the advice on the signature feature and will make use of it from now on.

Orsond (talk) 04:49, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

Orsond's Conflict of Interest

Orsond, As per my previous post, you cannot be considered a reliable source because of significant conflicts of interest arising from the nature of your involvement in this subject. You have a strong incentive to spread disinformation to promote distrust in organizations in opposition to you, to protect insiders, and to also uphold a public image of protecting insiders. On one hand, you have these obligations, and on the other, upolding basic NPOV. Beyond this, if BIKMUNNI had actually leaked and you had paid him to do so, that would result in a number of ethical issues that may ironically enough further weaken your position.

Independent of this, your account and its usage on the wiki appear strongly to be a Single-purpose account. While a certain degree of additional leeway must exist considering the somewhat limited scope of the 2b2t wiki, this furthermore suggests that you have difficulty in editing in a non-biased manner and avoiding spreading propaganda concerning controversial subjects you are involved in.

Testimony from BIKMUNNI and P529

Taking all of this into account, the conflicts of interest on the part of your position on the topic leave these edits on your part rather suspect. Other people that were present should be consulted. I reached out to BIKMUNNI and P529 on discord, and they showed me
 * 1) BIKMUNNI's financial records (which have no payments recieved whatsoever in that time period)
 * 2) His Proxy's alarm records (which show no contact with any 5th Column-related accounts until the base grief, and then has the accounts orsond, inthekhole, Zetrax, maksitaxi, and BEZ0 appear in render all at once before killing BIKMUNNI's proxy account)
 * 3) P529's Direct messages with zipoffs (in which zipoffs admits he had intended to teleport the Fifth Column to the -,- end corner, and that he had worked with badinek concerning this)

BIKMUNNI's Financial Records

BIKMUNNI's financial records DO NOT reflect the receipt of ANY payments whatsoever in the time period where it was alleged that he recieved money for access to the -,- end border. The only 'proof' I have seen of such an event occuring, is a screenshot with no context discussing the prospect of selling teleportation to the corner. This is not enough considering that Beyond that, BIKMUNNI never finalized any deal, but was still thanked for doing so over a week after he and orsond had stopped talking. This extended gap casts even more doubt on the existence of any transaction between BIKMUNNI and the Fifth Column whatsoever.
 * 1) Again, BIKMUNNI's financial records do not reflect him recieving any payment of any kind from anyone in the time period in question
 * 2) P529 and others also jokingly offered to sell the base. These offers were not built with genuine assent and were designed to be disruptive to Fifth Column's efforts to get the Corner Base. The context that the circulated BIKMUNNI DM screenshots lack would turn those other DMs into similar 'evidence', but, again, they are not so. Those offers lack genuineness of assent and there is no proof that any payment occured.

BIKMUNNI's Alarm Proxy Records

BIKMUNNI's proxy accounts were equipped with an 'alarm' system that recorded all accounts that entered its render distance. I have examined these records and noticed 3 important details
 * 1) Prior to 07/11/2022 4:21 AM in BIKMUNNI's timezone, no accounts owned by Fifth Column members are detected whatsoever
 * 2) At 07/11/2022 4:21 AM in BIKMUNNI's timezone, the accounts orsond, inthekhole, Zetrax, maksitaxi, and BEZ0 appear within his accounts render distance and are recorded as such, immediately followed by several others.
 * 3) BIKMUNNI's proxy account is killed back to Spawn by a Fifth Column member shortly thereafter. This is hardly the way to treat someone that has just brought you to the most difficult-to-reach location on the server, and it suggests that, again, no deal occurred that involved BIKMUNNI.

P529 and zipoffs' Discord DMs

Contained in P529's discord DMs with zipoffs, zipoffs claimed he had not teleported Fifth Column to the -,- end corner, but also stated that he and badinek had intended to do so in the near future. At face value, this appears to be a blame-shifting tactic that attempts to cast doubt on a narrative where zipoffs leaked instead of BIKMUNNI. Apologizing for something minor to avoid blame for something major is a common tactic. I must acknowledge that through looking into this in particular, I am now also convinced that badinek likely was involved in the leak as well. Regardless, if it were put up to just the zipoffs screenshot vs the BIKMUNNI screenshot alone, it would already seem likely that BIKMUNNI did not leak the -,- end corner base.

It's not just up to that though, including that, the proof for either viewpoint is as follows;

Arguments for BIKMUNNI leaking


 * 1) Discord DMs that contain a deal offered without genuineness of assent and no proof that any payment occured to substantiate said deal.
 * 2) Testimony from orsond, who has a high degree of conflict of interest
 * 3) A FITMC video which draws all its information from the previous two sources and takes other significant creative liberties (Such as Russians Stealing Krobar01's stashes, or not naming Harrissssonn, the main user of BoatTP in this context)

Arguments for BIKMUNNI not leaking


 * 1) BIKMUNNI's financial records showing no payment occuring
 * 2) BIKMUNNI's proxy records showing that the Fifth Column members were not brought to the Corner base by him, that they arrived all at once, and that they killed him back to spawn
 * 3) The extended gap between BIKMUNNI's disingenuous discussion with orsond about selling the base, and when orsond messaged him 'good making business'
 * 4) The existence of other disingenuous sales discussions concerning Fifth Column's passage to the base, by P529 and others
 * 5) P529's DMs with zipoffs which establish that zipoffs was there, that he was open to TPing the Fifth Column to Corner Base, and that he intended to work with badinek to achieve this

In other words it seems highly unlikely that BIKMUNNI engaged in any foul play concerning Corner Base, and that the purported evidence suggesting otherwise is tainted by conflict of interest on orsond's part between adhering to NPOV and keeping his insiders secure. --Joey Coconut1 (talk) 18:25, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

Concerning orsonds Cyberbullying of BIKMUNNI and the reduction of Harm

I am posting this in a separate section altogether as it represents a totally different discussion. Your third argument in your previous post misunderstands what I said in my initial comment. This is NOT a discussion of the removal of any and all content from the wiki that involves minors; it's anyways an entirely separate discussion. My point was not that BIKMUNNI leaked the base and shouldnt be talked about because he is a child, that is a mischaracterization.

What this discussion IS, however, is one concerning your cyberbullying of BIKMUNNI through the spread of rumors about him in places including but not limited to youtube and this wiki. It is even more inappropriate for someone of your age to cyberbully someone of BIKMUNNI's age. Rumormongering should be left behind in secondary school. That is my point. Agree with me or don't, that's entirely up to you. I ask that you please examine objectively what you've been doing with respect to this subject, and if you would still be supportive of such activities should your roles be reversed. You have directly caused a minor to be portrayed in an extremely negative light to the audience of nearly a million people that have already watched that video. How can you talk of 'reducing harm' caused by the wiki, when you have directly enabled that to happen and also actively work with the content creator that published that? Even if he actually did leak, you presenting that information to FITMC is still immoral based on what you have said. If you're going to try and claim a moral high ground, especially on something like this, you need only look in a mirror to see the real one that is causing harm to children. Your goal here seems to be to edit disruptively through edit warring and spreading misinformation in an effort to bully away people that do not share your viewpoint. Why are you editing this wiki if you are not interested in being objective?

--Joey Coconut1 (talk) 18:25, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

--Good morning - lets take this from the top:

Astroturfing

If my conflict of interest is put into question on this wiki, I must also raise your conflict of interest. On multiple occasions it has been documented on this wiki that you have allowed antisemitic and insensitive builds to be built under your watch at Block Game Mecca, conducted spread of disinformation, coups, nukes and other kinds of backhanded behaviour, only for it to be hard removed from the wiki on your behalf by another wiki admin, Leijurv. I am with the understanding that these edits have now been made to your page by other contributors of the wiki under your duress.

Further more, lets take a look at some statistics from some very popular personality pages: I find it very strange that pages of more prominent members of the community have received considerably less editing by Joey than his own page. Around March 2021, it appears that other contributors of the wiki agreed with this sentiment and started editing what was then the largest and most biased page on the wiki. It is no longer one of the largest single subject pages on the wiki but is still the largest about a single player edited by the page's subject.

P529s testament is a conflict of interest

There is a strong conflict of interest here, as you, Henry, Leijurv (wiki admins) and P529 belong to the same association, The Spawnmasons. It goes without saying that your group has been heavily impacted by my groups in game activities. It was also P529 who was impacted by this grief the most out of the members listed at this base and he has a loose history with BIKMUNNI.

Cyberbullying

As you are well aware, 2b2t is an anarchy community that has no rules and unfortunately this argument is has no place in the community. If you or anyone is looking for a more moderated environment, I would recommend Planet Minecraft's list of moderated SMP servers as your first port of call.

Administrators of the wiki, Liejurv and Joey_Coconut, were involved in a cyberbullying episode involving a mentally ill player called 0neb. Joey ran a discord group dedicated to the manipulation and gaslighting of this individual. Leijurv manipulated and tormented this individual into believing very wild ideas about his and other Spawnmason activities on the server regarding NOCOM.

Administrator conflict of interest

The wiki is controlled by a small cabal of Spawnmason members who seek to disseminate a biased and corrupt view of 2b2t history for their personal benefit and for their friends and Spawnmason members as a whole. This has been documented multiple times on 2b2t Wiki:Proposed Changes to 2b2t Wiki Staff.

There is a natural hostility towards me and members of The Fifth Column, as we have played in a style that has negatively impacted the operations of your group. I find it very alarming that you would allude to my use of this wiki as being solely for "concerning controversial subjects" that I am involved with, considering the way that admins and Spawnmason members have a long history of blanking truthful edits I have made to protect their public image.

Orsond (talk) 20:33, 30 November 2022 (UTC)